The UK’s Influencer Marketing Guru Gets Real
24 fingers: Hello everybody, welcome to another series of 24 questions. Today we’re joined by influencer marketing expert, Gordon Glenister. We say expert, We’re going to call him the UK’s actual guru of influencer marketing. Welcome, Gordon. It’s lovely to see you.
Gordon: Thank you. Always a pleasure.
24 fingers: So are you ready for 24 questions?
Gordon: Hit me with it.
24 fingers: Right, let’s dive straight in. What’s your favourite word?
Gordon: My favourite word is preposterous. The reason is because my partner absolutely loves it. It cracks her up whenever I say it. It’s not on a frequent basis, but whenever I say it, she just loves it. It’s got its own identity really.
24 fingers: How sweet, how romantic.
24 fingers: What gets you up in the morning?
Gordon: I think it’s really a feeling of creating an impact in what I do. I think a lot of us who run our own businesses do so not just to make money, but because we want to make a difference. We want to feel we’re creating value for the people we work with and for our clients.
24 fingers: Definitely. I spoke to somebody last night at midnight my time. She’d had a family situation, a bereavement, and I said she really didn’t need to be taking this call during such a difficult time. She said no, this call is really important because it was her mission to help people. She really wanted to make an impact and had such a sense of purpose that no matter what’s going on, she really wanted to help. That really struck home because you’re right – when you’re doing something you deeply believe in, it doesn’t actually feel like a job. If you can impact somebody and really empower them, it’s incredibly rewarding.
Gordon: Absolutely, 100%.
24 fingers: What do you truly, honestly think of social media?
Gordon: I love it and hate it in equal measure, like the rest of the world. I went to an influencer meet-up for the first time last night, which was something I just saw online. It was really interesting to talk to some of the people there – both established influencers and creators, and those who were starting out.
It can be quite a lonely job being in the social media space all the time. You’re constantly creating content, then you think you’ve done a really good video, but somebody else’s content gets ridiculous amounts of comments and likes. So it almost fuels comparison syndrome, and I don’t think that’s just a young person thing. I think it’s right across all generations.
For a while, it made me stop deciding to even start TikTok or Instagram video content. Then I thought to myself, if I’m teaching this, I’ve got to be doing it. I’ve got quite a niche subject, so I’m going to find my lane and just be consistent.
Some of the videos I’ve done have got 700-800 views, others have got 5,000-6,000, but not hundreds of thousands. That’s okay though. I always say to people, remember you’re serving an audience. The audience doesn’t have to be massive; it needs to be relevant. If somebody else has a very wide brief and all they’ve got is a load of lurkers, they’re not really going to serve them in any way. So it’s about staying true to your North Star, staying true to the why behind what you do.
Obviously, there are also people out there who just want to share information about their family and personal life. My mum is almost 90, and social media has been fantastic value for her. It’s enabled her to see what’s going on with her grandchildren. She often says she loves the pictures when we went to Switzerland or asks if I saw the children’s graduation. For that, it’s great. It’s also about supporting other people – if they’ve got a birthday or have done well in something. So I think it’s basically good and bad.
24 fingers: Thank you for being so honest about the comparison syndrome. I think that is a real thing, and as the saying goes, it’s the thief of joy. It’s so easy to be scrolling through and see they’ve got X amount of followers, they’re getting this, they’ve just been gifted that. That’s a really lonely place to be. I’ve just written a blog about that actually (How to Build Authentic Brand Collaborations That Actually Convert). I think you’re 100% right – 100 targeted followers who are really engaged with your brand are much more valuable than 10,000 scrollers. So it’s not about numbers.
I read something yesterday or was listening to a podcast, and they said something that’s still relevant from quite a long time ago: if you stop because you’re worried that you don’t have the follows and community, wait another year and you’re going to be even further back. You’ll have another year’s worth to catch up on. So whatever your current state is, just go for it.
Gordon: The big thing with social media is being consistent, not being perfect. That’s really important. You can spend a lot of time crafting a video and making it perfect. I think it’s all about the power of storytelling. People remember stories that impact them.
I listen to a particular video every day, and the reason I love it is because it tells me anecdotes that I can totally relate to. That’s what we want as viewers – emotional impact. We want to be able to see something we can relate to.
That’s why influencers are successful – they’re able to nurture a very like-minded community and really own their niche, as long as they’ve done that in the right way. That’s why they’ve become popular.
24 fingers: That segues me really nicely – Kindles or books?
Gordon: I’ve never got a Kindle, so I’ve never really read a book in that format.
24 fingers: Let’s say Audible then – Audible or books?
Gordon: Well, obviously I’m a podcast host, so I do listen to some other podcasts occasionally. But to be honest, I’m so busy. I probably should read and listen to more. Ironically, I’ve found more interest in YouTube over the last year. It’s amazing what’s on YouTube really.
Sometimes I want to relax away from this stuff. Even on the train, I could be working, but I’m just playing a game – just something to decompress.
That’s really important because one of the most important things we’ve got to do is rest our brain, rest our mind so we can consume what we’ve learned, rather than just taking in information constantly. It’s like going to a conference and attending session after session – all you’ve done is take in information. You haven’t actually absorbed the content or considered how to apply it to your own business.
That’s why I’m always in favour of round tables where you can effectively question the speaker and bounce ideas back. We learn through talking to each other because the brain can’t absorb everything all the time. It hasn’t got the capacity, and we’re overloaded. So there’s a bit of me that says less is more, but go deep rather than shallow.
24 fingers: What do you think is the biggest challenge to your industry right now?
Gordon: In terms of influencers, obviously there are more and more of them coming into the market, but the reality is there are more and more of them not making any money. If you look at the triangle, the top 1% are obviously killing it and making millions, but it’s that top 10% that are regular earners.
It’s like asking why Keira Knightley is in every other film, or why certain actors we often see get cast repeatedly. Why is Bradley Walsh in so many TV programmes? The reality is because these are professional influencers who come in and do the job consistently. They’re getting rebooked.
Therefore, the newbies on the block have got to work their way up, and that often starts with gifting. Gifting is good in its way, particularly from a hobbyist point of view, but I always say free dresses don’t pay the rent. If you’re looking to do this as a full-time career, you’ve got to monetise that content and be all over the analytics.
Obviously, there are concerns about AI and deepfakes – people almost using other people’s identities. That’s a real concern and worry. It’s been around for a bit actually. There have been stories of YouTubers who’ve had their accounts cloned, and particularly if it’s linked to a subscription, that subscription is going somewhere else. That’s really scary.
But I also think the creator economy is exploding already. More and more people are realising that this is not only a great side hustle but a real career. AI is going to replace hundreds of thousands of jobs around the world. That’s a real thing that’s already happening with some major brands.
For me, it’s about being skilled up, not just in AI, but largely around content creation. I think we’re going to start seeing more people who have what I call a portfolio career. I certainly have one, and I know others, particularly in my age group, have considered this. Maybe it’s about hiring somebody full-time versus having multiple income streams.
24 fingers: Absolutely right. Interesting. So I know you grew up in Essex. What did you want to be when you were growing up?
Gordon: Ironically, I’m living in the house I grew up in, which you don’t often get to do. It’s almost like full circle. It’s quite funny actually, because for a number of years I was living in Cambridge for about 30-plus years. I only came back here a year ago because my dad passed away, so we’re now living in his house.
I know the area really well, but obviously you have to start again with meeting all sorts of new people. It was quite funny because I met some old school friends I hadn’t seen since I was 16. Can you imagine going into the curry house and having them ask me a question that was only relatable to when I was 16?
But to answer your question – I’ve always wanted to work in TV, either behind the scenes or in production. I feel like I’m edging closer to that more and more because I’m in the branded content space. I’ve got friends in TV and I’ve interviewed people like Martine Coxall from BBC News. I’ve always been fascinated by the small screen. I’d love someone to say, “Do you want to work at ITV?” Something to do with entertainment has always been an ambition of mine.
24 fingers: Excellent. So what led you to your current career?
Gordon: It was an accident really. I used to work as director general of the British Promotional Merchandise Association for 11 years. I loved that job. After 11 years, that was quite an innings. I felt like we’d done some amazing things there – really transformed the industry and the association. But I wanted something new and different, so I started my own consultancy to help other trade associations with their strategy, marketing, and membership growth.
I found myself meeting up with Andrew Kentish from the Branded Content Marketing Association. We met in a hotel in London, and I was talking to him about how the BCMA and I could help each other. He was about to say, “This is great Gordon, let’s catch up again in a month’s time,” when I said, just before leaving, “What about this whole influencer space? There’s no industry body to support them.”
I meant influences, agencies, and his mouth just opened as if to say, “You’re right.” It was a bit of a Wild West industry that desperately needed some regulation. So we set about creating a division of the BCMA focused on influencer marketing rather than creating a new industry body.
We launched it in a big London nightclub. I knew a lot about associations, but I knew nothing about influencer marketing. So the first thing I thought was, “Well, I’d better try and find a book or listen to some podcasts.” I couldn’t really find much that was there, so I thought, “Why don’t I write a book?”
I’d never written a book in my life before. The book has done exceptionally well, actually. Maybe it’s because I interviewed some amazing people within the industry. Having virtually no knowledge actually helped me because it meant I was able to get first-party testimony and advice. I interviewed over 40 people for it. Then of course, ironically, when the book came to be launched, those people helped promote it for me. I was actually using an influencer strategy without even knowing it.
24 fingers: So your favourite word was preposterous. Can you use it in a sentence?
Gordon: Well, I was just thinking about this. I mean, basically I think this interview is quite preposterous, if I’m honest.
24 fingers: That’s the 24 questions way. Now can you make it rhyme?
Gordon: So I thought about, rather than saying “happy and glorious,” why don’t we say “happy and preposterous”?
24 fingers: You’ve got to make it rhyme though.
Gordon: I actually struggle with this. Preposterous… it’s got “ous,” it’s “erous”… rhinoceros.
24 fingers: Here you go… Someone might think that the influencer industry is preposterous, but I think it’s actually monstrous for them.
Gordon: That’s a good one.
24 fingers: What advice would you give to your younger self?
Gordon: Be patient, because unfortunately I’m not. I’ve been asked in interviews in the past, “What are your strengths and weaknesses?” I always say my strength is impatience, and the reason I say that is because I have a sense of urgency about getting things done. I’m an action-oriented, fast-paced type of character, and it’s in my DNA really.
I’m very much like my mum. My mum is nearly 90, but she’s faster with her Zimmer frame than some people just walking normally. I love it. She’s fantastic to watch. She’s passed it on to me.
24 fingers: What’s the best thing anyone’s ever done for you?
Gordon: When I left the BPMA, which was an industry I was very passionate about, my board members took me out to dinner at my favourite restaurant, which was fabulous. But they all gave me gifts that were relevant – they had a story behind every gift. You didn’t just get branded pens or mugs; they were all very thoughtful.
But also, my second-in-command Operations manager went round the exhibition that we were running, completely without my knowledge. Obviously people knew I was leaving, so she collected over a hundred comments in a lovely book. Although people always talk fondly about me, it’s never an easy job heading an association. There are probably going to be people who have views about what you do and how you do it.
But I was always a kind-spirited person, and to see all those comments in that book actually made me shed a tear. As I said at the beginning of this interview, you want to create impact. There’s always that role when you’re doing it for your company, but when you do it for an industry, that was quite palpable.
24 fingers: What’s been your career-defining moment?
Gordon: If I’m honest, it’s writing the book because I wrote it with quite a lot of imposter syndrome. You have to remember, I wrote this book without any knowledge of the sector. Normally you write a book with a lot of knowledge.
To then find that the book went on to be a finalist in the Business Book of the Year Awards and has been translated into Portuguese, with Chinese coming later this year and Polish in 2027, makes me feel that was truly career-defining. It hasn’t made me lots of money, but it’s given me authority in a sector that was very new to me. That has been great, if I’m honest.
24 fingers: And I loved your book signing. Thank you again for the invite. If you won a big award of some kind, who would you thank?
Gordon: I’d have to thank my partner, Marinella. The reason I’d say that is because behind every successful man is often a powerful woman. I won’t lie – running a business has its downsides. There are wobbles, there are things that happen in your personal life which sometimes we don’t always see on social media.
I think having stability, having somebody to rationalise your thoughts, having somebody who is always your echo chamber and support network, but also somebody who will share some home truths with you and doesn’t over-inflate your ego – that’s also important.
24 fingers: Can you give us a timesaver of the day?
Gordon: For example, packing your lunch the day before. It’s amazing how much time you can spend if you’re going to have sandwiches and everything else, doing all of that preparation. Or using food that you might have had the day before and cooking more.
One thing about living with a Portuguese partner is they always overcook, which was something very alien to me. They overcook because they want to have leftovers for the next day, and sometimes it’s true. Chilli con carne tastes better the day after, so being able to save time and prepare the day before is helpful.
But I would actually echo that with preparing a list for what you want to do the next day, the day before.
24 fingers: Where do you see the influencer industry in 24 months?
Gordon: I’m in the influencer industry, employee advocacy, and a little bit in the AI space as well. The good thing is I think I’ve put my markers in all three growth areas, and I think they’re all going to expand hugely in the next two years.
People are going to be much more in tune with personal branding and realising that traditional advertising isn’t cutting through in the same way that personal, individual content is. We’re seeing that with influencer marketing anyway, and employers are realising that too with their own employees. Being able to leverage that is important.
Realising that AI will be fairly transformational, not just in terms of workflow and content creation, but in terms of outreach and the way we do ideation as well. I think it will accelerate the efficiency levels of people in the industry.
It will make it more competitive, that’s for sure. If you think about it, what was the bastion of thought leaders – now everybody will have access to that information and the same tools.
24 fingers: Exactly right.
24 fingers: I think we probably met about 24 months ago, didn’t we? Where were you then?
Gordon: It feels like I’ve known you forever, but I think it probably was about two years ago.
So in 2023, I wasn’t here – I was up in Cambridge. I was still involved in the industry. I hadn’t launched Employeefluence then, so I was still very much in the influencer marketing space and still involved with the BCMA.
What I’ve realised is that the influencer marketing agency space is cluttered now, even though the industry is growing. Like anything, you want to go where the blue ocean is. If your viewers or listeners haven’t heard about that, there are great books on blue ocean strategy – finding markets that are untapped.
I’m not saying employee advocacy is untapped, but it’s definitely going to expand hugely, and there are fewer fish in that pond. Of course, I’ve got a background in personal branding and influence, so it’s a natural progression.
24 fingers: What’s an interesting fact about your company?
Gordon: I’ve never sought outside investment, so they’ve all been effectively self-funded. Whether that’s a good thing or not, I don’t know, but I’m very proud of the fact that I’ve been able to bootstrap them and grow them. That’s an interesting fact, I suppose.
24 fingers: If you could have a 24-minute Zoom chat with anyone, living or dead, who would it be?
Gordon: I’d want two people. One is David Attenborough, who is an icon for me. I love everything about him. He’s like the granddad of television. If I could get him on anything I do, his programmes are just off the charts. I absolutely love them. I love his narration, I love his gentleness, and you realise how much you can fall in love with somebody’s voice and personality. That’s really important.
The other is the Dalai Lama, and that’s because I have recently invested a lot of time in Buddhism – not necessarily as a religion, but more as a way of thinking.
I actually had a bit of an epiphany in 2024, which wasn’t good. It was a very difficult year for us in lots of ways. If I’m honest, I felt like giving everything up. I was really done. I felt the world is moving in a very different direction. The news is very toxic. My mind was a bit of a mess, actually. That’s not unusual for a lot of us, though we may not always share that.
My mum told me about this video called Deep Wisdom. If you ever want to listen to some amazing, thought-provoking content – and I mean really thought-provoking – with lovely, quiet music, it’s profound and it’s free.
24 fingers: I love it. Thank you for sharing, Gordon. Hopefully it’s not preposterous, but what’s one word you’d want people to describe you with?
Gordon: No, it’s enthusiastic. It’s the one word that’s pretty much followed me all through my career in some way. I like to think I have enthusiasm for everything I do. A lot of people say that.
24 fingers: I’m in Dubai, you’re in Southend, so I’m going to have to screen grab this for our selfie.
24 fingers: What’s your favourite social media campaign?
Gordon: I think it’s probably the Ice Bucket Challenge. The reason for that is it was one of the most engaging campaigns in history, but it also raised a huge amount of money for charity – I think it was for ALS research. It was $150 million they raised, and it was in 150 countries.
What it did was more than just being a campaign – it allowed people to participate. I remember doing it at Promotional Products Week. We did it in Russell Square Park, and I remember we videoed it. My team had such fun chucking water over the director general – me! But I think it allowed us to not take ourselves too seriously.
24 fingers: It was accessible as well, wasn’t it? Everyone could do it.
Gordon: Very accessible. If you’ve ever been to a water park and been under one of those big buckets when the water comes down, it feels so emotional when you’re flooded with water. It’s quite an incredible feeling.
24 fingers: What’s one quote that defines your work ethic?
Gordon: “A brand is what somebody says about you when you’re not in the room.” I know Jeff Bezos said that, but it’s something that literally follows me everywhere. When I talk to people about how to leverage your influence online, remember it’s not what you say you are – it’s what other people say you are that has the greatest bearing.
It’s the same way that when we go to find a restaurant or a destination, we’ll look at TripAdvisor or we’ll look at the reviews before we buy a product. So when someone says, “Oh Gordon, I’ve heard wonderful things about you from X,” it holds way more value because somebody else has spoken about me.
A lot of people I know work with my website developer son, and they often come to me and say, “That Louis that you recommended – he’s wonderful.” And I’m like, “Yeah, and he’s my son.” But what’s incredible is that kind of reputation and social proof is following him around. People have got that perception as well.
That gives your brand so much value and should give you the opportunity to have inbound leads on a regular basis. You haven’t got to pay the likes of Google. You’re getting people who find you through recommendations from other people who are advocating on your behalf.
24 fingers: Absolutely right. This is early, but what’s been the best part of your day so far?
Gordon: Well, I go for a walk when I’m working at home every day by the sea. I did that this morning and listened to Deep Wisdom. Then I came back for a black coffee and sat down in my dining room, nice and chilled and relaxed, with a nice bunch of calls to follow me through the day.
I think in a way it’s about managing your life in a way that fulfils you. But also having regular moments – things that you do on a regular basis. It doesn’t have to be every morning, but getting yourself into routines is actually very good for your soul. It’s good for your mind and it’s good for your health.
I also have a big healthy shake full of loads of things in it. That’s how I start the day. But also, everything in moderation as well. I mean, last night I had a beer. I’m not going to deprive myself. It’s everything in moderation, really.
24 fingers: I couldn’t agree more. Finally, anything to plug?
Gordon: Well, anybody who is interested in growing their personal brand and influence, do give me a ring. We’re happy to set up a call. We’ve had some amazing case studies with people I’ve worked with over the years, and I’m really proud to see how they have developed.
From women who run online clothing businesses that I’ve brought to London Fashion Week, to recruitment experts who suddenly now have got their own personal identity in the manufacturing recruitment sector. So personal branding – I’d be happy to have a chat with any of your listeners or viewers.
24 fingers: Excellent. Well, Gordon, thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure, and I’m sure we’ll speak again soon. Thank you again for your time.
Gordon: Pleasure.
